Not to beat a dead horse, but...gidde-up!!!!! Michael Beedie from Haestad sent me this link, a kind of "In the news" thing.=20 http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/11/20/grand.canyon.flooding.ap/inde x.html On a side note, Haestaed threw my name to Mr. Beedie for writing an "Article" for their news letter. I think Mr. Beedie is new and it's now part of the Haestad initiation process to drop my name. Apparently Mr. Beedie didn't hear the laughter in the background when my name was dropped. Anyway, so I worked on a little article for them. Have you ever heard the phrase "on the cutting room floor"? Yeah, I wrote an article on Hungry water and I saw no need to change my style of writing *laughter in background*. Mr. Beedie had to kindly inform me that the newsletter is only about 6 pages long, so I needed to trim my article down some *laughter in background*. Anyway, I think he passed the initiation process, although if I were Haestad I think I'd get him to sign a paper saying he won't sue for "hazing" or "cruel and unusual" punishment. So, that's coming up and he was nice enough to send me this link that I thought was relevant and interesting. OH!! I used Mr. Rands example in my article. Ya'll should check it out when it comes out. For those unable too, here's the executive summary: Hello, I'm Zeke, let's talk about me (about 2/3 of the article, I have my priorities straight) There's this guy named Lane that said some stuff (blah, blah) Then they dug a couple BIG holes (it's near Vegas) The earth slid into the ocean Here's some copy paste stuff In conclusion, I'm Zeke. (about 1/6 of the article) =20 -----Original Message----- From: Barry Rands [mailto:hawks.barry@prodigy.net]=20 Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 5:32 PM To: StormTalk Subject: [stormtalk] Re: Hungry Water? Out here in the West we call these clean streams "sediment starved". And this is not just a theoretical concept. Our firm was involved on the losing side of a court case. The plaintiff's engineer successfully argued that a debris basin constructed just upstream of his client's property was so effective that it caused the outfall to be sediment starved to such an extent that it caused significant erosion, undermining, and collapse of the bank on which his client had a home. The summary of the court case is as follows: "Homeowners claimed part of their home was damaged due to loss of lateral support adjacent to a debris dam (Medrano v. Ventura County Flood Control District, Ventura County Superior Court)" I guess this is a case of being damned if you dam, and damned if you dam not. -- Barry Rands, Associate Engineer Hawks & Associates 2259 Portola Rd. Suite B Ventura, CA (805) 658-6611 "Zeke Moore" wrote in message news:21242@stormtalk... > > Since Mr. Dyhouse mentioned his book on FLood Plain modeling and I=20 > shamelessly endorsed it, it reminded me of an article/discussion in=20 > the book that perked my interest when I read it and I've been meaning=20 > to bring up for discussion here. Actually, awhile back someone else=20 > mentioned it, but the thread never took off. So, I'm going to throw=20 > it out there again. > > Anyway, it's almost lunch time and I'm hungry so to save time I'm=20 > going to skip looking it up specifically in the book and just throw=20 > out the basic concept. Basically, "Hungry Water" is REAL clean water=20 > coming out of the outfall of a LARGE impoundment. The residence time=20 > and/or settling time for sediments to fall out of the water is so=20 > great that the water comes out extremely clean and free of sediment. =20 > That CLEAN water then causes greater ersosion down stream of the=20 > impoundment to the natural stream/river because it has a greater=20 > capacity to pick up sediment as it travels down stream and therefore=20 > transports away the sediment in the stream making it sediment free and > then once out of easy to pick up sediment it picks up the bed and=20 > banks. Hmmm, that last part doesn't sound right. Because it is so=20 > clean it has a greater potential to pick up sediment and results in degradation of the natural channel. > Not because of excessive velocities or volumes of flow, simply becasue > it "eats" up more sediment becasue it's so clean. Clear as mud? Or=20 > perhaps thats "too clear"? > > I forget the exact impoundment they mention, it's a famous one=20 > you've heard of.. like Hoover Dam or something. Basically, it=20 > explains that the reason the river downstream of this impoundment=20 > turned into a rocky barren gorge is a result of the "Hungry Water"=20 > transporting all the sediment away. > > Kind of cool huh? I find it kind of funny too because around here=20 > "removing" sediment is the big focus for saving our streams and=20 > reducing pollutants etcetera. According to this article if I do a=20 > REALLY good job at removing the sediments, I'll actually be destroying > the natural channels. LOL! > > Now, really I think the key is that the impoundment is REALLY big=20 > and/or the outfall water is REALLY clean. Something I don't think I=20 > normally deal with and/or that I'm going to come across. However,=20 > makes you wonder. I wonder at what point could this become a factor=20 > in my area. Maybe resovoirs that are designed with high residence=20 > time for the purpose of storing drinking water could result in REALLY=20 > clean or "Hungry" outfall water. At what point is it a factor and how > do you combat it? A "sediment by-pass" pipe installed at the upper=20 > end of the impoundment to carry some "dirty water" directly to the=20 > outfall and mix with the "really clean" stuff? > > Anybody else ever hear of this and/or deal with it? What do you=20 > think? > > Zeke